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New EU Laws and the impact on our passion

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Comments

  • ^^^ Moon snuff, great idea!
  • What! You mean moon dust isn't snuff? Next you'll be telling me the moons core isn't made of cheese.
  • No... It's Toque, Cheese and Bacon.  Snuff said...
  • I thought that England was leaving the EU. If this really comes to pass, it will be devastating! I can't understand the logic behind it at all. Where is the Britannia that ruled the waves? What has happened to the land of Churchill? The country that stood alone against Hitler's Fortress Europe? What has happened to the proud traditions? I guess it's world-wide now, all nations have become, excuse my vulgarity....pussified! It's just unbelievable.
  • @mrmanos, yes they are leaving the EU, but it's not going to happen overnight. Unless that has changed.
  • and you still gotta follow EU regs if doing business within the EU. One of the big arguments against Brexit was it's not going to get more freedom for England but they'll lose the benefits. So yeah at least at this juncture still got to play by the rules or go home. Sorry that's dangerously political but yeah still explains why this rule effects us. Part of me is hoping this plays out like the PACT act.
  • @Psicko, thanks for the explanation. I read several comments on this whole thing, and was sort of under the impression that snuff sales would be stopped soon, like really soon. I caught the panic and went to Mr Snuff and Toque and put in several emergency orders. Then, afterwards taking stock of my snuff supply, I realized that if no more snuff were available as of now...I'd have enough for at least 2 or 3 years. That said, I'm still hoping the wheels of government turn slowly, and perhaps forget this folly. Do any of you know if this new law will impact the Germans too? Is the upshot of this that there won't be snuff anymore? Or will it just restrict the number of them? I apologize for not being more succinct in my questions and comments, but I don't understand the scope of this law. From what I understand, it shouldn't effect the Indian snuff market. Perhaps it might inspire 6 Photo and Dholakia to create more snuffs to fill in the void...?
  • @mrmanos India is having some major economic shakeups. I hope it doesn't effect their snuff industry. I am enjoying Dholakia Ganga as I type this. :D
  • So this is in effect an EU-wide snuff ban thought up by conceited academics and imposed on the rest of us in the name of public health by a disintegrating, hypocritical and corrupt organisation. A typical example of the EU at work, some might say.

    The real mystery is why any snuff manufacturer - especially those in the UK - would even pay attention to absurd new laws and regulations created by a corrupt and degenerate EU that is visibly fragmenting. Rather than instantly reducing the range of available snuffs (Wilson's, SG) or ceasing production (Molens, Poschl), they might have considered keeping going and thereby tested the resolve of the EU authorities in prosecuting these new regulations. 

    The situation here in the Netherlands is that we simply can't obtain any snuff at all, especially as UK producers and dealers apparently won't send snuff abroad, and Molens has ceased production. By contrast, a bag of weed is available in any of several emporia in the small town I live in.....the EU as usual hasn't thought this through.
  • @Hapax I wasn't aware that Poschl had ceased production. I thought it was business as usual for them. Also it is easy to say "just keep going and ignore them" when we are not the ones facing potential fines and worse.

    Otherwise, I agree. It is a sad state of affairs.
  • For what I know Poschl will continue business as usual, maintaining their whole range but with some name changes (Gawith Original instead of Gawith Apricot, Ozona S type instead of Ozona Spearmint, etc.) you can check this in their homepage on the snuff range section.
  • It might be more accurate to say Poschl - apparently - no longer make their products available for on-line distribution. There is only one supplier (Pueblo) listed on the relevant Poschl webpage, and they sell no tobacco at all. I hope that Poschl products will still continue to be available in German tobacconists (not that that is of much use to me here).

    I would sumbit that facing a potential fine is still better than ceasing production or going out of business - which is what will probably happen in time to G.Hoggarth, Wilson's and Toque as well. A product that can't be promoted, advertised, sold on-line or sent postally, and which is subject to negative health propaganda, onerous taxation and bureaucratic procedures is more than likely doomed. OK, I know that sounds a bit, well...negative, but it really looks like we are facing the end of snuff production and distribution in the EU.
  • MrSnuffMrSnuff Administrator
    @Hapax

    we will continue to buy and sell snuff and ship anywhere in the world. If necessary we'll move out of the EU.
  • Hapax,
    Don't worry we send to the Netherlands everyday. We won't be stopped and most certainly won't be going out of business.
  • Thanks very much for your reassuring comments... I have started the ball rolling by ordering a kg and a half of the UK's finest; let's see if EUSSR Customs do anything about it.
  • @MrSnuff has there been any development/change in what WoS will be putting out, Dave? One member yesterday mentioned a new Dr Rumneys Blue - no good for me, as I don't do medicated, but wondered if wondered if this might be indicative of a general relaxing of their earlier stance.

    Also, any official word from the Gawith's yet, and is McC still planning on offering the full spectrum? I fully appreciate there's still a great many unknowns at this stage, but wondered what the current tone was with the mills that don't come here and speak to us directly.
  • Couldn't the British snuff producers hold onto their entire snuff lines until Brexit goes through and this ridiculous law no longer applies to them?  I'm not suggesting they no longer supply their entire lines to British/EU snuffers, but it's such a shame to eliminate a huge amount of variety when there is both a large overseas (US/CAN/Non-EU) market, as well as Brexit making this new regulation void for British snuffers as soon as it goes into effect.

    Roderick, MrSnuff, Dave, etc; you have our support! I'll continue buying your products one way or another.
  • Have just updated myself on all of this. Your letter was brilliantly worded @50ft_trad - you really hit the nail on the head. Have you heard anything back at all?

    Thanks for your calm, determined reassurance @Roderick. It's comforting to know that, whatever comes to be, we will at least have our beloved Toque to depend on.
  • I believe I managed to get a few people in the right places having a dialogue. I seriously doubt I have a lever long enough or pivot strong enough to effect any meaningful change of direction on my own, but hopefully someone somewhere will be a little more able to take my message and wave it under the right noses. I did what I can, and now it's in the hands of others.

    I know at least one person who occasionally walks the right corridors has heard and appreciated my message. Whether they can win over other people remains to be seen, though I wouldn't expect any significant change soon. Those corridors are all bustling with frantic activity on subjects more pressing than nasal snuff at the moment, and will be for at least two years.... but seeds have been sown, and there's someone trying to get those seeds to germinate.
  • @50ft_trad fantastic news brother!
  • EffyEffy Member
    edited February 2017 PM
    For those wondering about the legislation itself, here is a link to the EU press release.
    -- it seems to be from 2014, but is the only information I can find on it.


  • RoderickRoderick Member
    edited February 2017 PM
    "Other tobacco products, such as cigars, cigarillos and smokeless products are exempted from the ban on characterising flavours. This exemption will be removed if there is a substantial change in circumstances (in terms of sales volumes or prevalence levels among young people). Tobacco for oral use (Snus) is exempted from this ban, as well as from certain other provisions regulating ingredients." 

    This comment from the EU is the main reason most Snuff companies thought they were safe. How quickly they moved the goal posts.
  • I would find it hard to argue that snuff falls outside of the smokeless classification there, especially as it is not specified as a product elsewhere in the text. eg

    "........smokeless products (excluding nasal snuffs).............."

    or somesuch.  A shame that they are somehow now forcing it to be the case, but based on those words used in that document, I think that the snuff makers have an ironclad case to carry on as normal as long as they meet the labeling requirements
  • 50ft_trad50ft_trad Member
    edited February 2017 PM
    The EU Directive is just a framework around which the UK legislation is formed, and it's this UK legislation that the companies operating in this country must adhere to. There may be areas where the EU framework is more open than the UK framework, so any apparent leeway in the EU regs is meaningless if closed off in the subsequent legislation by the member states where the product is made, sold from, and/or sold to. It's a complete farce.
  • EffyEffy Member
    edited February 2017 PM
    Ah, which is why Poeschl can carry on with some rebranding, but some UK makers are facing a harder time?  I see this in cosmetic making, too - in Germany you can't sell cosmetics made in your home kitchen (you need a separate area) but here in Austria you can.  Which means I could sell in Germany even though I don't meet the "in country" requirements that German people have to follow.

    Utter madness when you think about what these directives end up doing.
  • Just had 2 orders for WoS tubs cancelled. I am not in the EU. I thought I could stockpile...Woe is me. :-<
  • @Effy Poschl have it differently anyway. They have a smaller range of products than the UK companies did, and all in one size of container. That's a massively smaller outlay in terms of registration fees. They also have a far broader supply network, and will be well positioned in far more retail outlets, whereas the UK firms are supplying through a smaller number of niche retailers.

    So Poschl have cheaper registration fees AND a stronger market position. To them this was a matter of petty cash, compared with the Brits whose fees would have been significantly higher than their turnover. The legislation favours the bigger companies selling fewer products, over the smaller companies selling a wide range in smaller quantities. A simple case of corruption - big business elbowing out the little guy by trying to make it impossible to operate, by lobbying (bribing) the right people to ensure the legislation works in their favour. Notice how it's a flat rate per product for registration, not a rate per kilo of product sold, which would have made it a level playing field for all producers.
  • @50ft_trad those are VERY good points.  I haven't been able to see how much it costs per registration, but I can imagine that the tap box + a refill bag per product in the Poeschl range is a lot easier than the vast array that I have seen from other makers online.  It's criminal, as I am just getting in to snuff and it seems that a lot of the choice is going to be taken away.  But I feel more sorry for the makers than for myself, I must say.
  • I do not really understand why UK manufactures sell less. I would prefer Toque, Samuel Gawith or any English snuff over Poschl any day of the week!
  • Aamon, my understanding is that your local shop/kiosk/vendor who will sell packs of smokes are more likely to be stocking Hedges or JH Wilson or Poschl. The myriad of snuff users out there in the world who don't shop online from specialist outlets, or discuss taking a pinch on forums or social media, aren't necessarily seeing the options. Why should they pay postage to have something shipped to them, when they can just pop in the local shop on the way to work, or when they pick up their newspaper or a pint of milk. While snuffers are the minority, internet based snuffers are probably a further minority of that minority. It takes a lot more snuffers than just us snuffhouse patrons to keep all these mills in business.
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