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Good news from Poschl

Red5angelRed5angel Member
edited November 2016 in General
Atleast for me! I asked about the survival of my favorite snuffs with the new laws and got this back from Poschl:

"Our snuff products will not be affected by the new TPDII law so I can confirm that all P


  • Hmm, looks like it didn't post all of my paste, try again :

    "Our snuff products will not be affected by the new TPDII law so I can confirm that all P
  • @Red5angel, try posting it without o umlaut. This platform does not accept it and cuts the message :)
  • Our snuff products will not be affected by the new TPDII law so I can confirm that all Poschl Schmalzler and Snuff will remain available :)

    We only had to change some names according to EU-CEG / TPDII law.

    Please see old and new names enclosed:

    Ozona O-Type (former Ozona Orange Snuff)
    Ozona R-Type (former Ozona Raspberry Snuff)
    Gawith Original Snuff (former Gawith Apricot Snuff)
    Andechs Snuff (former Andechs Spezial Snuff)
  • That worked, thanks!
  • That's the second snuff maker who has confirmed name changes for snuff
  • So how do they not suffer the fate of WoS?
  • @JosephJames - The EU regulation is not a ban per se, but a regulation, which includes big fees and major bureaucracy to get snuff sold throughout the EU. Poschl can evidently afford those fees. Sharrow Mills cannot afford the fees to sell all of their snuffs, in all sizes, to all EU nations, so they are forced to axe all but their best sellers in limited sizes.

  • I can't believe Grand Cairo wasn't a best seller :(

    I figured Poschl had deep pockets.

    Why does EU believe bureaucracy is the answer to everything?
  • Because they are corrupt, power crazy, arrogant arseholes, who think they are protecting the people from their own stupidity. We are not rid of them yet, but we're working on it. I honestly believe that we will not be the last country to walk away from their "soft dictatorship" approach to governance.

    I think GC has one of the biggest ingredient lists in their scenting formulation, and as every ingredient has to be declared and accounted for, it may present more hassle than it is worth. That's purely speculation though. The other possibility for withdrawal is that I know some stockist have refused to sell it in the smaller tins due to them rusting on the shelves as a result of the high moisture content, so that may also be a factor.
  • @50ft_trad  I only had to read the first few words of your post above before I pushed the Like button!!!

    The problem is that your comment can be applied to every politician from the most low level local councillor all the way to the very top. All of them seem to be incapable of doing what they have been elected to do but they find plenty of time to interfere with aspects of life that have nothing to do with them.

    If we ever actually leave the EU - which I seriously doubt will happen - we will still have problems with all of our homegrown control freaks.
  • @chris Quite true, but at least when we leave, every few years we will be able to sack them and get a fresh set of corrupt power crazy arrogant arseholes to moan about. No such luck in the EU.

    Democracy is the ability to determine for ourselves which incompetent turds we want ruining our lives, not just tolerate the ones we get issued
  • This is terrible news! Who cares that Poschl are going to dominate the EU snuff market. What about all the small German snuff makers this is going bury. They can't afford the fees that big tobacco can. It is the worst news.
  • 50ft_trad50ft_trad Member
    edited November 2016 PM
    @Roderick Personally, I would disagree with that. I understand they are competition, but they are also incredibly widespread competition. Widespread enough to put the concept of snuff in people's minds who don't frequent tobacco related internet forums.

    I want the smaller companies to survive and thrive too, but I do not necessarily want to larger companies to suffer in order for that to happen. Surely it's easier for the smaller companies to get existing snuffers to try another brand, than it is to introduce it to non-snuffers.

    The more companies than can negotiate their way through this current wave of oppression, the better in my opinion - even if the most publicly visible "gateway" snuffs are owned by big tobacco. It's more snuffers that are needed, not less manufacturers, and big businesses are just as much a part of keeping the market alive as small ones.
  • Afterthought:

    I have no idea how Germany are drawing up their laws to accommodate the directive, nor what fees will be levied (they will formulate their own legislation separately to the UK) and I certainly wish all the German mills the very best in persevering through these difficult times.

    Indeed I hope ALL remaining European snuff producers can find a way through the current challenges with perseverance, cunning, concession or whatever other salvation that may present itself, and that they retain maximum productivity, viability and diversity at minimal cost (in more ways than just financial). I personally don't use Poschl snuffs, but I am pleased they are able to continue their full range for those that do use them.

    There are a number of manufacturers whose products I don't use, whether due to grind, mentholation, or other factors, but I still hope they all fight on through these dark days and wish them all strength and prosperity for the sake of the wider snuffing community.
  • @roderick, lol, it's not horrible news in that they currently make my favorite snuffs and will continue to make them! What does suck is a government thinking too much FOR the people and instituting legislation in this.

    I suspect this was a lobby attempt by general anti-tobacco groups who found that implying inviting scents attract children. I don't know anyone who uses a tobacco product who made that decision on a flavor they saw on the shelf.
  • I still say it is horrible news! I have spoken to 3 German companies last week who think they will have to drop 70% of their range just to stay in business, with the threat of dramatically reduced business and probable future closure.

    I am working hard, not just for the British snuff industry but, for the whole industry in Europe. The largest company will be the only one left standing.
  • Well I'm approaching this purely as a consumer, and not looking at the business challenges. I'm not paid to worry about such things :P

    I'm happy that Poschl fans retain their favourites, and remain sad and worried about the fate of my favourites. Many of my favourites from Wilsons have been declared kaput. Choc Orange, Thyme and Lemon, Rum and Blackberry, Irish Coffee..... will this mean I stop buying Wilsons? No! Will I move to Poschl to fill the void? No!

    Poschl will not be benefiting from my business. I don't buy tap boxes, and I don't buy mentholated. If only Poschl survives, I'll just stop buying snuff. I'm not paying upwards of 20p a gram for snuff I don't like, in a box I can't pinch from. Yet I am happy that users such as Red5angel still get to keep their daily pinch.

    I will be buying whichever of my favourites survive from my preferred producers. I want to keep buying from Kendal, but if they go tap box only, they lose me as a customer. I want to keep buying from Wilsons, as they've retained some snuffs I'm happy to keep using. I want to keep buying McC Mild Lemon - I don't care much for the rest of their range so far. I am hoping that Toque retains the diversity that so many others have lost/are losing, or that at least some of my favourites (especially Berwick Brown) endure.

    Ultimately however, besides writing a few letters to get some public officials on board, all I can do is choose from what is offered to me. I do not lament the market keeping what I don't want, I only mourn the loss of ones I enjoy. I appreciate this is the biggest blow to snuff in the UK since the pit closures, and I do believe that snuff will rise again in time. Till then, it's going to be trying times for mills and consumers alike.
  • I got this from Wilsons of Sharrow today  ... 

  • There are a lot of changes happening at the moment with the introduction from Europe of the Tobacco Products Directive 2 (TPD2).
    This requires us to change our packaging and the names of our snuffs that have a
  • @ShaunS You'll need to edit their reply for us, buddy. If there's any symbols in the text the post gets cut off. Eager to hear the rest of what they said. Cheers
  • JosephJamesJosephJames Member
    edited November 2016 PM
    Good afternoon and thank you for your enquiry.
    Following the UK government
  • JosephJamesJosephJames Member
    edited November 2016 PM
    This would not paste however I tried to do it. I have typed the email instead. The only change I made was putting pounds in parenthesis because I have no idea where a GBP symbol on my keyboard is. Otherwise, the email is verbatim. The reference to chocolate orange, rum and raisin, and Grand Cairo was based on my inquiry. Guys, I am seriously going to miss Grand Cairo. 

    Good afternoon and thank you for your enquiry.
    Following the UK government's adoption of European anti-tobacco legislation called 'The Tobacco Products Directive 2' it has now become necessary for us to register all of our flavours of snuff with Public Health England.

    The cost for this is 260 (pounds) per annum for each flavour. Some of our flavours sell in very small quantities. We have therefore had to make the very disappointing decision to discontinue nearly 40 flavours that would have become unprofitable due to these costs, including chocolate orange, rum and raisin and possible Grand Cairo. 

    We are very sorry but hope that our customers will understand that, unelss we make a profit on sales of snuff, we will go out of business entirely.
  • So, does all this stuff mean that our favorite snuffs from WoS, Poschl, etc, WON'T be available? I'm getting mixed messages. I heard from somewhere that F&T won't sold any longer. I know Jaap in Holland has to close the windmills, so I've ordered all I can from him. Now, if I understand what I've read, this stuff is for the EU. Does that mean we here in the land of Trump won't be effected?

  • It is confusing, mrmanos. I understand that we can still buy snuff. Wilson's is dropping a lot of their flavors of snuff and, apparently, concentrating on the best sellers. I think the Germans have until next year sometime to comply. So far, Toque is steaming along full speed and we can still get whatever we want from them. You might want to grab some of those economy bags :D.

    One of the things I heard about was a limitation on tins to 5 or 10 grams. MrSnuff still has the bulk containers but you have to place them as a separate order, or so the site stated when I tried to put a tub of snuff in the cart. I have also seen some products on his site that state they cannot be ordered by EU citizenry. 

    I am taking no chances. I just got some payments from customers in, so I will be binge buying tomorrow and perhaps even more the following weeks. 

    I still cant believe they did this. Most people don't even know what snuff is. 
  • @mrmanos, the email I got from poschl indicated they wouldn't be suffering to much from the law, just having to change names.
  • There is no real panic. You have until May to stock-up. We have a cunning plan (sorry Blackadder fan) and will still hopefully be able to offer the same range however, others may not.
  • I'm all stocked up on SG, GH and WoS now. I've added a couple of Indian snuffs too, as I got them cheap. Need to find some more funds to get a bit of F&T tucked away. I've held off on Toque and McC bulk so far, as it looks like they're continuing as normal for the most part - although I already had a full jar each of Berwick Brown and Plain Coarse cellared anyway....
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