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Scotland possibly leaving the UK?

What now will become of things in the future in regards to snuff and snus ??

Comments

  • Are they planning on calling it Sexit?
  • We have to be careful straying into politics here, but I think the timing of all this is greatly unfair to all our brothers and sisters north of the border.

    The timing that has been proposed, does not allow for a clear vision of what Scotland's future would be like in the UK or in the EU post Brexit. Both entities will change to some extent, and it won't be till the dust settles after the UK has fully left that anyone up there will have a clear picture in order to make an informed decision. Then there still needs to be time for a good open debate of the pros and cons either way before a referendum takes place.

    I fully agree that our Scottish brethren should have the power to decide whether to remain in a Union that values them and is gradually returning devolved powers back to them, or to leave and join a Union that will take more powers and more money away from them and leave them with even less of a voice in future events. Neither of which is true independence by the way. I don't think true independence (outside of any external influence) will be offered to them, and I don't think they'd want it either, as they would be extremely isolated from a trade perspective, never mind the other aspects.

    Unfortunately, it seems Holyrood's executives are hoping that the UK's personnel being heavily invested in the Brexit negotiations will mean that the UK will have less resources to fight their corner. Also, if we are still negotiating with the EU it will be strategically difficult to argue the negatives of moving to the EU camp, for fear of offending the other 27 countries that we would be in simultaneous negotiations with. This was a very dirty and underhanded move by those who called it, with grossly irresponsible timing for both Scottish citizens and the rest of the UK's populous.

    Putting aside the fact it's only 3 years since they last voted to stay, the Scots should indeed choose their own destiny, but in the interest of everyone in Scotland AND the rest of the UK, they should wait until after the UK has left the EU. After all, if we had voted to Remain, they would have by default put themselves outside of the EU anyway. To force an earlier referendum would be denying the Scottish people any form of clarity over their decision.

    As to the OP's question, look at the turmoil created by the latest tobacco directive that's cost us over 200 snuff blends and shut one mill altogether. That was the EU, and that's what the SNP want to take Scotland back to. They'll also lose their fishing rights again, possibly lose their military if the EU continues on it's current path, and the way things are going, maybe even their currency too. Do they really think they'll enter the EU with the same clout the UK did? They'll be fucked! Big time! Scotland will lose any semblence of identity, self control, or regional influence. If they're unhappy with their lot now, they're gonna be a whole lot more pissed off being controlled by Germany and France.
  • ArtChooArtChoo Member
    edited March 17 PM

    Trying hard to keep off the politics here.


    In the event of another referendum for the Scottish people, to express their views and see if they wanted to leave the United Kingdom,    it would only be fair to let the English, Welsh, Irish and the Manx peoples express their views in a separate referendum to see if they actually wanted the Scots to still be included in the United Kingdom. 

    There are always two sides to a coin and what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

    I do not believe that the above is political or racist.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As to the original question,    

    The answer lies in the standard statement one well known UK smoking shop displays at the side of each individual snuff product.

    "SORRY,  WE  CANNOT SEND THIS PRODUCT TO THE USA OR ANY EU COUNTRY."

    So snuff produced in England would not be sent North over the border into Scotland, the EU member.



    Additional note added later.......

    I have just had a look at the shop that I mentioned earlier and the export restrictions  also apply to chewing tobacco, pipe tobacco and roll-your-own tobacco.  They will happily sell you pipes, filters, papers holders everything but the tobacco.

    There is an old saying  "Its grim up North," but it would be even grimmer North of the border for smokers, chewers and snuff takers if Scotland goes its own way.

    Manufacturers and retailers will love me now when I say

     ITS TIME TO START PANIC BUYING TOBACCO PRODUCTS IN SCOTLAND, AND STOCK UP FOR WHEN YOU LEAVE THE UK.


  • RoderickRoderick Member
    edited March 16 PM
    I think Nicola is very relieved Theresa said no. Her party forced her to ask. If there had been a vote she knew she would lose and be ousted as leader. Now she has the chance to stay on a little longer. The sad thing is the North of England are starting to say we should give Scotland independence so they (the North of England) can reap the benefit.
  • EffyEffy Member
    The question itself was also a nonsense - you can't negotiate a deal and then part of that deal potentially is removed at the end of it.  The UK couldn't negotiate a deal including Scotland with the possibility that Scotland would leave at the end of it and then there be no time to renegotiate a new deal.  
  • ArtChooArtChoo Member
    edited March 17 PM

    I remember when originally, we all had the vote to join or stay out of the Common Market and every household received two leaflets, one stating the benefits of joining and the other explained the down sides of joining.

    The only thing that stuck in my mind from the leaflets was that the down side leaflet mentioned  industry would drift South and leave the North and Scotland with less and less industry.  The reason for the Southwards drift was less transport costs for our exports to the continent.  This actually happened, I repaired office equipment for 40 years and I was regularly told words to the effect that   "we wont be here next month, this site is closing and everything is moving to the Southern branch."

    So we turned our backs on our old colonies and trading partners and traded across the channel.            New Zealand Lamb and butter, Argentinian beef, fruit from Jamaica, you name it we just left them all in the lurch, and our politicians probably now expect them to welcome us back with open arms.


    Before I drift away too much, the purpose of this post is,   when he mentions "the North reaping the benefits" does Roderick mean export trading across the English/Scottish border, or the money no longer spent on Scotland could be spent in the North?


    Its lucky for you folks that I am a lousy typist or this post would go on and on and on................

  • Being Scottish I would like to add my own perspective. My vote is for Scotland gaining independence from the UK and joining a biliteral union with Sweden. Then we would have free access to SNUS. As long as Roderick would still export to the new SwedoScotland then I'd be a happy chap.
  • ArtChooArtChoo Member
    edited March 18 PM

  • Clootie, I like it. 

    To be honest I straddle the fence. As a Scot I worry for my fellow countrymen. I flirted with SNP back in the early nineties and came to the conclusion we could make it on our own but, the poorest of Scots would really suffer and that was enough for me to jump ship.

    Next the rich would leave and and industry would struggle. I just don't know how we would manage today? I suspect the border reivers would be revived and Scotland could be in an even worse situation. What I don't understand is if this is the case why is Westminster desperately trying to hold the Union together? It can't be love alone when financially England would be better off. I wish there was a non biased paper that could give us all the true facts?
  • Balls to the SNP! I live in Scotland & I do not want a second referendum on Indpendence. I want the uk to be out of the EU.and united within the UK.


    The SNP are just political gueturing. They will do their utmost to cause political mischief as long as they can. We in Scotland do not want a second referendum on Indeoendence! And I tell you all now that feelings to the idra of little old Scotland a member of the EU is something that a vast section of the SNP do not want. That along with the Unionists will ultmatedely defeat the SNP refernddum.




  • Roderick, I fully understand. The nuclear subs would come down, and all their supporting industries around and about. We'd reestablish our own shipyards for all our military ships, which would be a heck of a blow to the Scots. The offshore assets such as shipping and fossil fuels would be partitioned off, and I would imagine a lot of Brits elsewhere would stop buying Scottish produce as a way of sticking two fingers at them for bailing out. In time we'll also increase our power generation to lessen the needs to buy it in from over the border.

    The EU would want FULL contributions, not the reduced rates that Thatcher got, and they would no doubt have to accept other terms which the UK as a whole was strong enough to accept. Schengen, the Euro, pooling of military might, port controls, who knows what else, and the cost of shipping goods to and from the continent potentially increases. Scotland's biggest export would be it's skilled labour, as they move elsewhere to put food on the table.

    Meanwhilst, the nukes stay here, as do the intelligence services. The North of England and the East coast get a boost for heavy industry, fishing, and North Sea energy. Much of the financial services moves down to London.

    Even if Scotland did vote to leave, and the SNP systematically destroyed Scotland's economy leaving them with little more than whisky, meat products, rain and midges ..... we'd still get the fucking blame for everything!
  •  I remember Dear old Margaret on the television, being jostled by reporters when she came back from Brussels.  When she told them she had got a very good deal, one of them asked had she given up anything. She pinched her index finger and thumb together, like a snuff taker and said "just a teeny, little bit."  About a year later we learnt that   "a teeny, little bit "   was our ship building and steel making.           So I think we may be a bit short on working ship yards for the navy.

    As for Scottish exports, there is not a big demand for Edinburgh Rock, Shortbread and Haggis.

    UK politics are very genteel compared to other countries around the world, and we have not yet reached the book burning stage, but if and when we do I think I will be applauded by many on both sides of the border by hurling Jimmy Shand and Andy Stewart records into the flames.



  • EffyEffy Member
    On a personal note I have mixed feelings - Granddad was Scottish.  I think that too often people who are pro tend to talk about the fact that Scotland could do it, painting those who are against it as thinking less of Scotland.  But just because you could do something doesn't always mean that you should do it, and just because you shouldn't do something doesn't mean that you couldn't do it.  

    As for the timing in this case, Nic's suggestion is just plain silly.  She wants the UK to negotiate a deal, presumably based on the whole UK including Scotland, and then have a chance that part of the offering from the UK be removed.  There is no way May can agree to that, as then everything would have to be renegotiated and there just wouldn't be time.  I do wonder if Sturgy wanted to be able to ask the question to keep hardline SNPs happy, but without actually having to go through with it.............

    On a selfish note, if Scotland did leave the UK and joined the EU, then I could take a Scottish passport and stay happily here in Austria!
  • I don't undervalue Scotland, I just hate what the SNP are doing, and they way they are bullying fellow Brits on both sides of the border. Although I was adamantly pro-Leave, I want the Scots to have a clearer picture of what the choices are than we all did in the EU Ref.

    I want them to be able to see exactly how the UK will be realigning itself with the continent and the wider world. I want them to have the opportunity to see that start to unfold. I want them to know what they would take with them, and what would be left with the UK. I want them to know exactly what the terms of re-entry into the EU abyss would be, and what they would need to both pay in contributions, and what they would need to surrender in the name of further integration.

    I think these are the things that the SNP desperately want to avoid, as the picture will be so painfully clear that remaining in the UK will be BY FAR the better option for the Scottish people. They want to keep painting the image that Scotland is some kind of repressed subsiduary of England, rather than one of the four pillars of the United Kingdom. The SNP stand to do a great deal of harm to Scotland if they force the UK's hand with this, and we need Ruth and Kesia to step up the fight to protect the people from this injustice.
  • @Effy  talking of Scottish passports has just given me a thought.

    You might be able to get a job working in the Scottish Embassy or Consulate in Austria.

    Lord knows how much it would cost to set up buildings, security , communications, staff and travel expenses for  Scottish Embassies and Consulates in all the major countries of the World.

    I wonder where the Embassy will be located in England?

  • Oh no,       will we have to listen to another entrant for       The Eurovision Song Contest
  • =)) The Eurovision Song Contest is one of the annual events that make me glad I don't have a television >:)

    I've just thought of something that Scotland would actually gain! The chance for their football team to play at the Olympics. Imagine that! An international competition where they'd be guaranteed at least one game :))

    Sorry, that's probably a bit naughty :P

    Seriously though, that's some good points on having to set up embassies everywhere. I'd not considered that aspect.
  • ChicoChico Member
    I find it ironic that Leave voters have a problem with Scotland wanting their own referendum considering that they cite many of the same reasons Leave voters cited to leave the EU.  Sovereignty, ability to make their own trade deals, to steer their own future etc.   And anyone who believes that tobacco laws will be eased after Brexit will probably be sadly disappointed.  UK laws go above and beyond EU ones, like high taxes and the photos of diseased organs.  

    Caveat: I am a firm Remainer who deeply resents the prospect of being stripped of my EU citizenship, and the rights and privileges that come with it.  I view Brexit (specifically the May brand, anyway, as opposed to a Norway/Switzerland model) as a colossal act of self-harm, and fully empathize with Scotland for contemplating remaining with the EU over the UK.  
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