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Toque USA W&H - Did the recipe change? All I taste is bonfire? Considering tossing them... Advice?

Hey guys, first post here! I want to preface by saying that I'm new to snuffing, and I absolutely love Toque as a brand so far. My first order I got USA Spearmint, Blueberry Menthol, Vanilla, and a Menthol bullet, and all were great. In today's delivery, I got SP Extra, Spanish Gem, USA Lime, Menthol, and 3 tins of USA Whiskey and Honey. 

I debated ordering the W&H with its rustica content.... I've been off cigarettes / dip and on vaping low nicotine juice for the past 2 years, and I decided to try snuff just to compliment my vaping / cut down on my vaping, so I was wary of trying the rustica based USA W&H lest I end up increasing my nicotine tolerance again... After a few adult beverages last weekend, I decided what the hell and ordered some.

I've tried a few small pinches of the USA W&H and I'm not tasting any sweetness whatsoever, despite many people on here saying it was very sweet. I'm getting a VERY smoky bonfire smell / taste, which I guess is reminiscent of a very smoky scotch, but this is more outdoor wood fire... I'm actually quite relieved that I don't like it - all the other new flavors I tried seem GREAT so far (the Lime seems outstanding). I'm trying to convince myself to just throw these 3 tins of W&H out - I don't find the W&H to be "blow your head off" strong from the few small pinches I took, but when I drink I tend to do a good bit of snuff, and given that I'm really not enjoying the taste much, maybe I shouldn't dabble in consuming a lot of rustica when I was getting along fine tobacco-free for 2 years... Is this a smart move? 

Also, I know the other flavors I ordered (USA Lime, SP Extra, Spanish Gem) are supposed to be a bit stronger than some of Toque's "normal" blends, but am I right in thinking these are a slight notch up from the "standard" blends, while USA W&H is a BIG jump in strength? I'm really feeling I should toss these W&H tins before I consume a lot after some beers this weekend and then decrease my desire for Toque's other great flavors that I vastly prefer the taste / scent of...


  • I think that making a completely consistent snuff seems to be difficult, from almost all manufactures I notice differences in batches. 
  • Keeping your nicotine tolerance low seems like a wise move to me. There are plenty of lovely moderate nicotine snuffs on the market, and dabbling in rustica is either going to blow your socks off, or push up your nic tolerance. Probably both. I'd suggest sticking with standard Toques, Wilsons, and McChrystals.
  • matteobmatteob Member
    edited August 2017 PM
    It is whiskey on a toasted tobacco base so there will be some burnt smell there but there should also be an underlying sweetness together with a slight sourness from the rustica. My first tin was more smokey than my second. I guess the first was maybe an older batch? If ordered from Toque themselves the snuff is normally very fresh but there could be inconsistencies in the flwvour blending. I'd try another tin before making up your mind. Did you try from all three tins?
  • bobbob Member
    and your nose is going to change over time too. It may sound strange but what you've been snuffing or smelling changes how much you pick up certain scents. Example go to the beach and it smells really fishy after a few hours that smell practically disappears. It's a survival thing that lets you pick up on scents that are new. Some scents are more susceptible to nasal fatigue. Smoke is one that is less susceptible since it's always good to be aware of fires.
  • I say just keep on snuffing. Some of the experience is enjoying certain varieties with daily activities..ie. meals and such.  I also got the plethora of tins from toque when I first started to "learn" what it was all about. I still have quite a few of the originals still with me. While they are not my favorite, or the taste has changed...I still use them. For instance, my coke flavor has left the tin long ago. But it is still a beautiful tobacco and I use it as a daily driver and with coffee.  Others are seasonal and holiday orientated. But they still seem to make the rotation or use in mixers.  Just a thought....
  • matteob - I did indeed order directly from Toque. Trying one of the other tins was one of the first things I did, and it tastes the same as the first one. The flavor is growing on me a bit - its by far the longest lasting Toque flavor I've tried, and its starting to taste more scotch-like as I try it more.

    Does everyone here who's tried USA W&H find it to be significantly stronger than other snuffs? I've tried a few more small pinches today, and I have to say, I don't find it to be too much stronger than the other snuffs I ordered... But that may be because I'm treating it with respect and taking pretty small pinches. This may just be a placebo effect, but I feel that it has a "different" effect on me (from the Rustica) than the other snuffs do... Hard to say, but it doesn't seem to be WAY stronger to me, just a bit different... I contemplated throwing it out, but I go through phases where I smoke cigars every other day for a few weeks, and then stop for months at a time and just vape my low nicotine juice, so I don't think I'll end up "hooked" on the Rustica.

    Then again, does anyone find SP Extra or Spanish Gem to be noticeably stronger than the "normal" Toque blends? 

    I've been really, really impressed with the Toque brand and almost every flavor I've tried, but I have to say - USA Lime is on an entirely different level. If you haven't tried this flavor, order some ASAP. It smells and tastes like a green sour patch kid candy, and the germanic oils on it make it SO easy to take... It also seems to have a decent kick as well, more-so than Vanilla or USA Spearmint for sure... This is easily my new favorite Toque flavor so far - highly recommend everyone try it.

  • I think the nic in it is about right as a pipe and cigar smoker it does not blow me away (no snuff does) but it is higher than the others to me. I don't have to reach for one all the time when I am taking it. There have been batch variations in the past. I will be reordering in a few weeks so I will be able to tell you what has changed, if anything. One thing I have noticed with W&H is that it seems sweeter when new and more like what you are describing after about 6 months or so (I always buy 400 gr at a time). Since you ordered direct from Toque I doubt that it had that much age on it since they have trouble keeping up with demand on this one, I think.
  • I don't find SP Extra very strong on the nicotine tbh though Roderick claims it is. I like it as it has a far sharper and more refreshing bergamot citrus than the Original. I'll try the USA Lime but I prefer finer, drier snuffs tbh. The Lime Toast is lovely.
  • Thanks for the responses guys, this seems like a great community to get good information. I'm with you J_S - I don't find it to be too strong. I'm glad I didn't toss it - it seems to have maybe a slight edge in nicotine, but nothing major. When I haven't had a cigarette in months and have one, I usually get a slight buzz from it. Some cigars I get almost no nicotine from, but some, like the awesome 601 Steel, absolutely knock my socks off, to where I feel like a whole-body high for an hour afterwards. I was concerned that the rustica blend would be extremely strong, but it seems pretty mild so far if you're used to larger blasts of nicotine (even if you don't get them often)...

    matteob, you probably wouldn't like the USA Lime then - its the moistest snuff I've had from Toque yet. My SP Extra could probably use a little time to air out, but its very refreshing. I also don't find the SP Extra, Lime, or Spanish Gem to have very high amounts of nicotine, but they do seem to have a bit more than the other Toques I have (Vanilla, Blueberry Menthol, and USA Spearmint)
  • I think the Spanish gem ambrosia is the strongest one ive tried from toque. It could just be me though.
  • That's nice but a little too moist and sweet for me. I tend to find that I don't get good nic transfer from moist snuffs.
  • Damp down rustica on a dry day and you should have better results.
  • @sniffles48 I don't find the W&H to be significantly stronger. I think that I need more moisture to get any nic, so either a humid day or a snuff that gives a decent about of drip.
  • @nicmizer sorry I don't get you.
  • i wouldnt throw any of them out. the more you snuff, the more you will get the whole scent. i wouldnt make any judgements until ive snuffed at least 10 grams of it. it lasts a long time if you store it right so revisit it occasionally. you might end up with a completely different opinion on it. when i first started i threw tins out, snuffs i now love today. i hated american scotches for almost a year and then they sort of grew on me and now i cant get enough of them. 
    this is all advice i got when i first started and im just  passing it along down the line  :)

    as for your nicotine tolerance goes, there are a lot of stronger snuffs and even more that are weaker. if you mix it up and use both strong and weak snuffs, your nicotine addiction will level off to a happy medium. keep a few different snuffs out at a time. i think most snuffers do.
  • IcepickIcepick Member
    edited September 2017 PM
    I just got my 400g in the mail and I'm more than happy with it. I do so much W+H that a change is nice. Naturally haven't made up my mind yet but the first few snuffs are new and interesting!

    @sniffles48 If you're worried about increasing your dependence too much, Whisky and Honey USA WILL do that if you use it everyday.
    t you seem to already have a tolerance if you weren't blown away by it.
    I would recommend you snuff what you enjoy; it's not too hard to adjust later

    Edit: I missed a couple posts in this thread cz my bad.
    Also I'm starting to feel like it's got enough of the rusty stuff to overshadow the other scents sometimes. Almost too much N for me
  • Also worth thinking about Rustica does have a different range of drugs in it than regular tobacco. If you take it with an MAOI or something that mimics one (like yerba mate) it's really apparent.
  • Sniffles, I read with interest your first post. My first thought was oh no someone doesn't like W&HUSA then I thought, I wonder if they will stick with it or go back to cigarettes and dip. I am so glad to read you stuck with it and even more happy to read your opinion of W&HUSA is changing for the better.
  • Roderick, first of all, thanks for making such a fantastic product, and running an outstanding business. The fact that I'm able to get fresh Toque direct to the US from the UK without getting slaughtered on shipping charges is awesome - keep up the great work. 

    I wouldn't say I was REALLY at risk of going back to cigarettes and dip - I've been off of cigs and dip for almost 3 years now thanks to vaping, but I absolutely love the occasional cigar, and I enjoy the more artisan forms of tobacco. Snuff seemed like something I had to try, and given the supposedly very-low health risks, I'm glad I tried it. USA W&H has grown on me a lot - I actually thoroughly enjoy the toasty flavor of it now, and while I'm not getting too much honey from it, I can definitely taste the scotch-like whiskey flavor. It is a lot harder to take than almost all of the other Toque flavors I have though - its a lot drier and finer. I'm still working on my technique, but I'm liking it a lot now!

    I don't find the USA W&H to be any stronger than the Spanish Gem, SP Extra, or USA Lime. I find them all to be a bit stronger than the other "normal" Toque flavors I got first, but USA W&H doesn't seem any more potent to me.... Maybe I'm just unable to do as big of sniffs of it because if I do too much, I end up with a brutal nasal drip that gets really acidic in my throat - again, working on my technique (I like to wrap my index finger around my thumbnail, then use a pen cap to put snuff on my thumbnail, using my index finger as like a fence around my thumbnail - this way I don't waste any. If I pinch it between my thumb and index finger, I find a lot sticks to my fingers and I don't end up actually getting much on my sniffs)
  • @sniffles48, could be that your nose is dry. I only get nic when I get a front drip as well, or it is really humid out.
  • Just an update - in hindsight its hilarious how wrong I was about USA W&H. It was my first toast style snuff, i.e. very dry and fine grind. I think I wasn't used to the flavor profile of that type of snuff, and being used to more moist / coarse style snuffs it was just very different. I currently have 8 different flavors of Toque, and USA W&H is the only one that I've finished a tin of - all of the other tins are between half way and 3/4 full. USA W&H is now without a doubt my favorite - VERY happy I didn't initially toss my 3 tins. The nicotine content is definitely higher in the USA W&H, but not in an unmanageable way; it gives you a noticeable kick with a few pinches, whereas some of the standard flavors take several more to feel the nicotine. Overall, I love it now - the smoky, fiery, scotch flavor is manly in the best way, I'll be ordering a bulk bag in the near future (Roderick, please keep these available for sale, when I first ordered USA W&H they weren't available in bulk bags but I see they are now - is this planned to continue?)
  • LOL! Thanks Sniffles. Yes, the economy bags are for the long run.
  • I still have most of my 50g bag. I only use it once in a while, but it's locked in an air tight, double zip lock bag, so it still has the wonderful scent and all the nicotine. It is still the best whisky and honey snuff out there. A little bit goes a long way for me, and I find there is very little drip. I sometimes mix a bit with my vintage Gallagher Irish High Toast(1943).
  • How's the batch running lately on this?
    Considering buying a 400 but the last one I got was a little strange.
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