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duty on snuff and ordering from overseas

Hi,
Forgive me this question has been asked and answered before but I am new to the site and can't find a reference to it.
Is it legal to order snuff across national boarders in the eu? I understand there is not duty paid on snuff - does that change anything?
The selection where I live is fairly limited.
Thanks.
Ubert
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Comments

  • Not Sure where you live but here in the U.S.A. its legal....for now. I've never had to pay anything extra for duties or anything else. I'm not positive but I heard Canadians have trouble with paying duties or taxes but are still able to receive it as long as those are paid.
  • crullerscrullers Member
    edited January 2013 PM
    Yes, it's a crapshoot up here in Canada. Most snuff orders pass through customs with no problems but some get caught. Less success with snus, maybe 50%
  • I've never had to pay duties on snuff and I've ordered ALOT of snuff, but here in Canada they're really cracking down on snus. When I first started snusing I never had to pay duties but now as stated above about half your packages will get busted and duties must be paid.
  • I got busted for $55 my last snuff order just before Christmas.
  • Canadian and Australian customs officers have no idea what snuff is and try any amount of tax from 5% and I'm not joking when i say this, to 900%. I always say if the tax is illegal i.e above 5%, refuse to pay and have them send it back to us. We then resend and it always gets through.
  • crullerscrullers Member
    edited January 2013 PM
    @Roderick I've seen you mention this before and I appreciate it. Luckily I'm 100% success from Toque and another order is forthcoming. It's not just duty they charge here - there is GST/HST on top of the duty, and $9.95 "Handling costs" so can add up to a pretty hefty charge. I've often thought of challenging the fees but don't want to end up on a s**t list and have all my packages messed with.
  • distainddistaind Member
    edited January 2013 PM
    @crullers and @n9inchnails maybe if you live close to the US border you could just set up a P.O box there. Maybe you don't but just a thought. Ive never bad a p.o. box before so I guess I don't know if you need a U.S drivers license or not.
  • Skell18Skell18 Moderator
    @Ubert if its within the EU then the free movement of goods means its all ok, as log as the duty is paid in the country you are buying from, its all good. As there is no duty on snuff in the UK at least you shouldn't have any issues, I never have with stuff coming into the UK.
  • @Ubert You should have no issues doing so. There are quite a few online vendors in the UK and Germany, as well as ordering direct from some of the mills.
  • HI guys, thanks for all the replies - looking at Skell18 and Xander's comments it's happy days for me then.............what do you recommend? :D
  • Skell18Skell18 Moderator
    @Ubert Mr Snuff ships from the UK, so if you're in the UK sorted, Toque, Wilsons and McCrystals are all UK based too so if you order direct from them, even to the EU, you're fine.
  • XanderXander Member
    edited January 2013 PM
    @ubert the businesses Skell18 recommends are all reputable.
    @ermtony has already compiled a list of every snuff site on the internet that sells, talks about, or makes snuff here: http://ermtony.pbworks.com/w/page/14871689/Snuff Links

    I'm not going to reinvent the wheel.

    Many of the German snuffshops are inconvenient for me here in the USA, but might be convenient for you in Luxembourg. Also de Kralingse mills is your neighbor in the Netherlands, and sells direct. Their Limburger snuff might be something you would have a cultural kinship with, just guessing, but its origins are close to you. The point is enjoying the exploration. There are some really magnificent snuffs out there to be experienced from all regions.
  • Hey Xander - thanks for the info, I'll check this stuff out. On a recent trip to Bavaria I stumbled on Pöschl's doppel aroma – didn't get on with it at all, found the scent really sickly. That said, love some of their other stuff.....
  • I'm ignorant, so would some kind comrade take the trouble to try to explain to me EXACTLY WHY the "Credit Card Restrictions" on the UK snuff dealers prohibit all sales to the USA. I figure it's something like the credit card companies are afraid of getting dragged into some kind of law suit like the tobacco companies here have experienced. Actually, I'm eager to try to find legal avenues around the restrictions. For example, can we go over there, buy a bunch of snuff, and bring it back here ok? Or, what's to prevent a "Group Buy" kind of concept, involving somebody traveling here from the UK, or else shipping to a country like Canada to have it relayed to the US? Too expensive, elaborate, complicated?
  • XanderXander Member
    edited September 2013 PM
    @publictakeover there is no legal restriction at all on buying snuff from the UK. The major credit card processors have a self-imposed restriction very much as you surmise - fear of legal reprisal/litigation in particular concerning underage sales. However a number of UK vendors don't use them. You can order from Mr. Snuff, Toque, Snuff Store, Snuff.me all without any hassle, as do probably 90% of our members.
  • Far Out. Thanks, Xander!
  • Canadian and Australian customs officers have no idea what snuff is and try any amount of tax from 5% and I'm not joking when i say this, to 900%. I always say if the tax is illegal i.e above 5%, refuse to pay and have them send it back to us. We then resend and it always gets through.
    @Roderick, are you sure about the 5%? I asked about buying snuff in a good tobacco shop in Melbourne, Australia. The proprietor said the duty was imposed on a weight-basis, I think it was $450 a kilo. Going on the price of a 400 gram economy bag of Toque, that's around 300%. Outrageous, of course, but it's still better than paying $450 for a kilo of cigarettes or pipe tobacco. The only nice thing about it is that it means that there is practically no variation in the price of snuff -- a kilo of the cheapest snuff will end up costing almost the same as a kilo of the most expensive, so you can just go ahead and order what you like best, without worrying which one costs more.

    In Idonesia, duty is 50% on anything over $50 worth, but some customs officers also say that it's illegal to import more than 40 grams worth of any tobacco product by mail. I've got no idea how they come up with that, but I've heard two different lots say it. I had two pounds of Cornell and Diehl pipe tobacco confiscated once, other times it's come through without even being taxed. @Roderick, with my last order of Toque, I had a note from Customs asking me to provide them with a certified chemical analysis of the "chemicals" that I was importing (6 x 25 grams of Toque Quit)! I went and chatted with them, I showed ritual deference and respect for their authority, after half an hour, they let me take the tins and go. But that's why I strive to keep orders down to below $50 in value, if one or two orders get confiscated, I'll just have to live with it.

    In general, frequent, small orders seems to be the way to go. The overhead costs of taxing four or five tins of snuff probably means it isn't really economically viable. That might slow them down a bit.
  • thorgrimnrthorgrimnr Member
    edited September 2013 PM
    @distaind @Roderick
    @crullers and @n9inchnails maybe if you live close to the US border you could just set up a P.O box there. Maybe you don't but just a thought. Ive never bad a p.o. box before so I guess I don't know if you need a U.S drivers license or not.
    The problem with this is when you come back up to Canada, the border guards will ask you if you have any tobacco or alcohol. If you say no and you do, then that's going to cause some very serious issues for yourself. Always declare any goods and let the border guards decide if they want to enforce duty fees. Sometimes it's not worth their time. Anything more than 2 cans and they will find the time though.

    @Ubert this doesn't apply to your situation but I thought I should explain it anyway for any future readers and this example is calculted using snus, but snuff or any tobacco product would have the same treatment.

    ANY tobacco product imported into Canada is subject to duty if it get's flagged as it enters Canada.

    Lets imagine an order of snus from Sweden containing 4 cans of loose each weighing in at 42 grams. That's a total weight of 168 grams.

    When I checkout at the online shop I pay $6.89 for shipping and handling ( standard air mail ) to get it to me ( usually within 10-15 business days, sometimes longer if it gets held at customs) and the price of the product costs me $18.40. For a total of $25.29 Canadian Dollars..so that works out to be $6.32 per can if I don't have any duty to pay. That's reasonable in my opinion. I can only buy General White Portions here in Canada off the shelf and a can with 24 pouches costs me close to $19.00. Keep in mind a 24 pouch can has less tobacco per gram than a can of loose snus.

    Customs uses the Value of the item determined in the "declared value" from the country of origins currency and multiplies it by the days exchange rate, to Canadian dollars.

    Then a value of what the tobacco is worth in Canada if it were actually manufactured in Canada is determined. Manufactured Tobacco is valued at – $5.3125 per 50 grams or fraction of 50 grams contained in a package.

    So :

    total package weight / Manufactured Tobacco Value * 5.3125 = Amount of Duty

    168 grams / 50 grams = 3.36 grams * 5.3125 = $17.85

    Then the Value of the tobacco as stated by the sender in Canadian dollars $24.75 ( as determined from the days Euros to Dollars exchange rate ) + the amount of Duty, is added together and multiplied by the %5.00 Goods and Sales Tax to determine the GST rate.

    (24.75 + 17.85) *0.05 = $2.13

    So now have worked out the Duty $17.85
    GST $ 2.13
    Total $19.98 #:-S

    But wait there's more taxes needed still. :-/ We need to add a Provincial Sales Tax. :-$ That tax is calculated by using the Tobacco Tax Act's Rate @ 0.213 cents per GRAM x the weight of the package and rounded up.

    168 grams x 0.213 = 35.784 or $35.78 for the PST

    not done yet. :-w At some point someone has to flag the tobacco as it comes through the mail. It also costs ink and paper to inform me that all these additional fees will be added. That is a flat rate of $9.95 :-bd

    Add it all up now.

    Duty - $17.85
    GST - $ 2.13
    PST - $ 35.78
    Handling Fee - $ 9.95
    Total Duty - $65.71 #-o now add in what I paid online + the shipping of $25.29 = $91.00
    b-( for 4 cans of Loose Swedish Snus. That works out to be $22.75 Canadian per can or €16.32 or £13.78 or $22.08 US dollars.

    In Summary

    An imported can of snus without duty = $6.32 <:-P
    A purchased can of portions at the gas station = $19.00 /:)
    An imported can of snus with duty = $22.75 :-t

    Not all packages are stopped for duty fees, so sometimes I can save some money. Other times I don't. Perhaps in the long run it is a savings and I get access to products I don't normally have. There is only 1 shop in all of Canada that sells 1 type of snuff.

    So I won't be ordering any bulk snuff or rolls of snus anytime soon. :-< Oh, Canada.






    *is there a snuff house badge for most use of smileys in 1 post? [-O< :D ;;)
  • @JakartaBoy is correct in that the tax on all tobacco products into Australia is by weight and $440 per kilo, but they also now add 10% GST (tax on a tax - nice!) to it so it ends up costing nearly $500 a kilo. That being said, i have never had to pay any tax on snuff on 50+ orders and over 10kg. Not once. I have had pipe tobacco, cigars, snus and chew all taxed but never nasal snuff. I know they have opened some of the snuff orders as they have put their "opened for inspection" stickers on them. Maybe the aristocrats have started snuffing again and so they have secretly exempt snuff from the outrageous tax?
    They've started getting more desperate recently. Used to be that less than 200g of snus or pipe bac would get through every time, but in the last few months they have started taxing the 100g parcels of snus i order. Doesnt really worry me too much as i'm set with snuff for a few decades so all good.
  • @thorgrmnr, no, there is no such badge currently. However, I have the power to assign badges at will. If our official graphic design artist, @dogwalla designs an icon for such a badge, I can give it values and then set it as an automatic or manually issued badge. What do you think @dogwalla?
  • @BigNose, so, what's the procedure with paying taxes on tobacco in Australia when you get it by mail? The postie turns up with a notice and you have to go and pay at the post office? I ask because I make trips back every now and again, so far it's always been around ten days, so my piddling little 50 gram duty-free cap is good for two 25 gram tins, enough to tide me through, but I may make a longer trip sooner or later. The same tobacconist said that it's still illegal to sell snuff or any form of oral tobacco in Australia. He had bitter eyes.
  • @JakartBoy They send a letter of ransom in the post. No pay, no baccy (they send it back after a month or two of not paying). Easy to pay electronically or post office. I've paid a few times but it's turned me to snuff as it isnt taxed yet.
    Yes, it sucks they they just outright banned all forms of smokeless tobacco in OZ some 20 years ago. I'm gosh sure that Big tobacco ciggie makers had nothing to do with that!! /sarc
  • Yes, it sucks they they just outright banned all forms of smokeless tobacco in OZ some 20 years ago. I'm gosh sure that Big tobacco ciggie makers had nothing to do with that!! /sarc
    Weird. But when you say snuff isn't taxed, you just mean they haven't got around to enforcing it yet. Still, if and when they do, you're still better off with snuff, particularly in a weight based tax system. I don't know what a ciggie weighs, but probably about as much as half a day's snuff.

  • generally .8 of a gram so if 3 grams get you through the day then its about 4 smokes.
  • @BigNose, one last question, if you don't mind: Is there any set limit on what weight you can import into Australia? Or do they just use weasel words like "reasonable amount for personal use"?
  • @JakartaBoy I can't speak for Australia, but if it's anything like Canada you can import as much as you want. I suspect though as a personal use amount that would be clearly less than a metric ton or some other vast amount. If you are a tobacco importer there is clearly some regulations involved. For reasonable personal amounts, you just get to pay more taxes is all. I'm sure any government wouldn't mind getting more money through taxes but @BigNose would be able to answer this better.
  • No, i think you've got it pretty much right @thorgrimnr . Never heard of a limit but at $500 buck a kg i dont think they really need one. @JakartaBoy if your wealthy enough to pay the million dollars tax for 2 tons of baccy i imagine they would probably help you out with a trolley and pushing it to the airport car park.
  • No, i think you've got it pretty much right @thorgrimnr . Never heard of a limit but at $500 buck a kg i dont think they really need one. @JakartaBoy if your wealthy enough to pay the million dollars tax for 2 tons of baccy i imagine they would probably help you out with a trolley and pushing it to the airport car park.
    shhh! You're scaring Roderick.
  • JakartaBoyJakartaBoy Member
    edited September 2013 PM
    If I assume, to be on the safe side, that I'll live to be 85 and use 5 grams of snuff each day for the rest of my life, 63 kilograms would get me through. I'm beginning to get survivalist tendencies.
  • So your 50.479 years old at present? BTW survivalist tendencies are a good thing.
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