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Spreadsheet: Ingredients of Poeschl,Bernards and Swedish Match

Hi guys i got a treat for you =;
use the explore function but im not sure how to do that with a published sheet
i would love similar work for other products and manufacturers.

there ya go:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTfVlO6mal6dVhw8jFVMPx5VIW1wWoLyHO3j2zXON_BzXT5GywSASHmfiOEaoF2nQBsuhqEKSS41c0C/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true

Safety, Peace and Prieeeees ;))

Comments

  • HitsuzenHitsuzen Administrator, Moderator
    Thank you so much for posting. I love, if you go all the way to the end where Sternecker Echt Fresco is listed, the only ingredients are tobacco and alkalizing agents. No shortcuts, no colorings, no substitute flavors. Just real, traditional Schmalzler. Makes me feel better about having collected so much of it. Why isn't Staubinger included? Is it no longer being made?
  • volungevolunge Member
    edited February 2018 PM
    @SunnyDay Great job done, vielen Dank! This will save loads of time for many.

    @Hitsuzen There were no alkalizing agents in Sternecker's schmalzlers, just tobacco and paraffin oil. And Ungefettet (unoiled/ungreased) supposedly was just pure tobacco.

    There are 3 Sternecker schmalzlers listed at BMEL: Echt Fresco, Fresco and Schmalzler (i.e. Staubinger), all three consisted of 82% tobacco and 18% paraffin oil.

    Unfortunately, no more Sternecker:
    https://www.snuffstore.de/infos/snuffpost-blog/eine-aera-geht-zu-ende-sternecker-schmalzler-ein-nachtrag

    There are some discrepancies in uploaded data sheet @SunnyDay. I know my favourite Kensington snuff by heart, it doesn't contain paraffin oil. Just tobacco, water, potassium carbonate, eucalyptus oil, menthol, salt, lavender oil and minuscule amount of undisclosed flavouring agent(-s). Data source: https://service.ble.de/tabakerzeugnisse/index2.php?detail_id=104994&site_key=153&stichw_suche=kensington&zeilenzahl_zaehler=1


  • HitsuzenHitsuzen Administrator, Moderator
    @Volunge Sorry, followed the wrong row.

    Very sad, no more Sternecker. I stored mine up a while ago, and keep a vial of Echt in my pipe kit. Ungefetted was the same but dry, so you could add your own oil if you wanted to use animal fat instead, like in classic times. It was honestly pretty mild on it's own. I think I still have some left, if I haven't traded it off. Lots of Fresco and Staubinger, though. Rosinski's Frankfurter is really nice, too. The new Rosinski Schmalzler, Oderlander, should be in my hands in the next few days.
  • That's really cool ... thanks!

  • I don't know what I'm looking at. What am I looking at? Am I going to die?
  • HitsuzenHitsuzen Administrator, Moderator
    @DrOctagon Well sure, eventually.
  • These are astounding and unbelievably brilliant. I can't wait to get started. Thank you so much for finding these and thanks to the German Government for releasing commercially sensitive recipes. 
  • volungevolunge Member
    edited February 2018 PM
    @Roderick These data are publicly and freely available at Germany's Federal Ministry of Food and Agriculture (BMEL) website for quite a long time already. I was sure every snuffmaker knew it. Sunny did a praiseworthy work consolidating all data in a user-friendly format.

    These formulas are just skeletons, frames. It wouldn't take too long for a hired chemist to unravel basic composition of any rival's snuff. More important is the exact process of manufacturing (technical knowledge, considered industrial secret) which is surely not disclosed, as well as the know-how part.

    Ingredients of Swedish snus are listed on every can label. Snuff producers could do the same. Ok, there's really not much space on a label sticker, but every producer should list the ingredients on own website.

    Everyone has a right to know what his favourite product consists of. Some still believe snuff and snus contains powdered glass (and they don't even know about the existence of Snuffhouse).. And others could swear 'natural' ('plain') or toasted snuff consists of pure tobacco only. Sancta simplicitas! Curing, casing, fermentation, alkalization still sound like senseless abracadabra even for some avid snuff takers. It needs to be stressed that the first and foremost purpose of ingredients data sheet publication at Snuffhouse should be educational one.

    Although no one needs copy-pasted existing snuffs, it would be nice to see recreated (restored) Sternecker's schmalzlers. It would be quite of a challenge, though. A mix consisting of 82% of generic tobacco (ok, even be it that vegan-unfriendly Brasilian one) and 18% of paraffin oil / lard / butterschmalz won't result in Echt Fresco, Fresko and Straubinger all three at once :). See.. And the process would be time-consuming (fermentation in barrels alone may take years).

    As far as I understand, general know-how is not considered a secret, too. Some interesting info on schmalzler production is available at producers websites.
  • Yes,but the most important ingredient will always stay a secret.The tobacco-plant....what type,its origin(the soil) etc.
  • Hey guys

    @tobaccobob well said! i dont think anything used in the whole process up to blending in flavors needs to be listed.

    @volunge  your "vegan unfriendly" comment made me laugh but its true (with the brasil fermented in cow hides which on i wildy guess it adds enzymes that benefit the fermentation)

    @droctagon no you wont die all of those are perfectly fine to consume at least for a pinch now and then while others are more fit to be a go-to all day all year snuff.


    8-} and :)>-
  • Yeah thanks a lot, @SunnyDay
  • Another correction: there's sodium carbonate (decahydrate) amount indicated in sodium sulphate row. If my memory doesn't fail, there is no sodium sulphate in Bernard, Poschl, Arnold Andre (Swedish Match) and Sternecker snuffs.
  • @volunge no its sodium sulphate which is only in all of the poeschl products which made me wonder about its function so i asked poschl they denied using it and asked what specific products so i told them nearly all (except pure schmalzlers) and pointed them to their own data but no further reply was recieved by me
  • volungevolunge Member
    edited March 2018 PM
    Are there any updates of composition data available already, Sunny? Just checked old data sheets (2011) of some Poschl snuffs and haven't found any Na2SO4 among the ingredients. For example, Bayern Prise (https://service.ble.de/tabakerzeugnisse/index2.php?detail_id=104968&site_key=153&stichw_suche=poschl&zeilenzahl_zaehler=26).
    The amount of supposed sodium sulphate (1,621 mg) for Bayern Prise in your spreadsheet coincides with the amount of sodium carbonate (1,621 mg) indicated in data sheet, publicised at BMEL (it's named CARBONATE, [SODIUM SALT, 10-HYDRATE] there).
  • @volunge huh... thanks for pointing that out must have been an error that dragged trough but im not sure how that could happen as i was very curious about that to even even mail them. oh well my apologies!

    on the bright side that means i can mix poeschl and bernards without fearing unwanted reactions of sulfur and calcium hydroxide into gypsum :)
    i happened to get out the gletscherprise earlier today that i forgot about for a while and its very nice. furthers the realisation that snuff is like food a bit even if you have a favorite food you love if you eat it all day you wont enjoy it as much. im not having much of a problem mixing it up because i nearly love all snuffs and those i dont like i can count on one hand.


    :)>- & ;))
  • volungevolunge Member
    edited March 2018 PM
    @SunnyDay, I've just found info about Poschl snuffs composition at Italian Customs and Monopolies Agency website. It concerns snuffs available on Italy's market. I mean, it wouldn't be suprising if Poschl used different recipes for production of the 'same' snuffs for different markets at the same time. Actually, it's a common practice among many manufacturers in various industries.

    I made a quick comparison of 2010/2014 Italian and 2011 German data sheets. Declared compositions of the 'same' snuffs sold in these two countries are different.

    https://www.agenziadoganemonopoli.gov.it/portale/ricerca?p_p_id=3&p_p_lifecycle=0&p_p_state=normal&p_p_mode=view&p_p_col_id=column-2&p_p_col_count=1&_3_struts_action=/search/search&_3_cur=1&_3_format=&_3_keywords=poschl&_3_entryClassName=&_3_assetTagNames=&_3_assetCategoryIds=&_3_folderId=&_3_modified=&_3_modifiedselection=0&_3_modifiedfrom=16/03/2018&_3_modifieddayFrom=16&_3_modifiedmonthFrom=2&_3_modifiedyearFrom=2018&_3_modifiedto=17/03/2018&_3_modifieddayTo=17&_3_modifiedmonthTo=2&_3_modifiedyearTo=2018&_3_documentsSearchContainerPrimaryKeys=20_PORTLET_2190527,20_PORTLET_2305932,20_PORTLET_2249712,20_PORTLET_2318233,20_PORTLET_2309723,20_PORTLET_2292256,20_PORTLET_2148215,20_PORTLET_2234720,20_PORTLET_3096402,20_PORTLET_2888436,15_PORTLET_3887015,15_PORTLET_3788631,15_PORTLET_3914490,15_PORTLET_2934055,15_PORTLET_3551072,15_PORTLET_3756070,20_PORTLET_2285481,20_PORTLET_2237973,20_PORTLET_2262738,15_PORTLET_2927033

    Look for the file named "2014 - Poschl Tabak GmbH and Co. - tabacco da fiuto - tabella prodotti.xls" and "2010-Poschl Tabak GmbH Co. KG-tabacco da fiuto-tabella prodotti.xls" (next page).
  • Another interesting document - constituent comparisson in smokeless tobacco products used in Europe:

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Helena_Digard/publication/267707693_Constituent_comparison_in_smokeless_tobacco_products_used_in_Europe/links/54f5d4690cf2ca5efefd345f/Constituent-comparison-in-smokeless-tobacco-products-used-in-Europe.pdf

    See the results table below for hazardous constituents (nitrites, TSNAs etc.), moisture, pH and nicotine. A bit outdated, but sightworthy nevertheless.
  • Another link to the same study, just in case the link provided above doesn't work: http://www.bat-science.com/groupms/sites/bat_9gvjxs.nsf/vwPagesWebLive/DO7AXL9M/$FILE/medMD7DTDGU.pdf?openelement


  • volungevolunge Member
    edited April 12 PM
    Old, but still interesting data of chemical analyses for some of the major nasal snuff brands produced and sold in Europe, supplied by Swedish Match in 2007:


    This confirms my guess that strongest mentholated snuffs have high pH rates. Hedges - 10.2, Kensington - 9.6.
  • edited April 14 PM
    thank you both for the interesting info!

    It seems combusted tobacco causes some genes to become cancerous by up to 60x while smokeless tobacco does not.  I am sure there are still dangers but not as much when compared to combusted tobacco. I found this info in the link below, Thanks to volunge

  • Very interesting document. I'm not surprised by all the different ingredients. The only ones on the list I use are Polar Prise, Lowenprise, and Alpine. Sometimes I like the schmalzlers, but not often enough to buy them regularly. I prefer English snuff these days primarily.
  • volungevolunge Member
    edited November 9 PM
    @mrmanos, indeed, really helpful. I can't find my favourite Kensington anywhere, so I just made my own from that round tap tin of dried-out J&H Wilson SP No.1. Menthol, eucalyptus and lavender. Beautiful!
  • @volunge if I wanted to add an thick oil, say sandalwood, to a snuff would it need thinning down a bit first. If so with what?

  • volungevolunge Member
    edited November 9 PM
    @Betty_BW Yes, you need to thin it down to facilitate mixing. I use pure ethanol (96%), a mere mililitre is enough for thinning few drops of essential oil. I haven't tried adding sandalwood oil, though, but the amount of e.o needed for scenting snuff varies greatly from oil to oil. For instance, it takes only one drop of lavender oil to scent 5 grams of snuff (actually I'm considering using even less next time, that is, 1 drop for 10 g of snuff), but you might be willing to add up to 6-7 drops of eucalyptus e. o. into 5 grams of your mentholated snuff). Be careful, better use less first, then add some more, if needed.

    Countless blends of e. o. can be made, dissolving them in ethanol, just run a search "what does X essential oil blend well with" (where X is the oil of your interest).
  • @volunge thanks for your reply, I shall have a play.
  • volungevolunge Member
    edited December 4 PM
    The first comprehensive chemical characterization of South American nasal snuffs :

    Comprehensive Chemical Characterization of Rape Tobacco Products: Nicotine, Un-ionized Nicotine, Tobacco-specific N'-Nitrosamines, Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons, and Flavor Constituents

  • Interesting that Bernard uses calcium hydroxide (instead of sodium carbonate) in the snuffs containing molasses and tamarind extract. Would the soda react with those or interfere with the flavoring, one wonders?@Volunge any thoughts on this?
  • volungevolunge Member
    edited December 4 PM
    @SammyD13, I would like to note that those snuffs/schmalzlers also contain some vinegar. Albeit the amount is small, it significantly adds to the flavour (at least in Aecht A which I tried). Not sure if (and/or how) molasses and tamarind extract would interfere with sodium and potassium carbonates, but every alkalizer has it's own taste. You can feel the "taste" difference switching from snuffs containing potash to snuffs containing sodium carbonate or slaked lime (calcium hydroxide). Especially after prolonged usage of one particular kind. I first noticed it when switched from Molens (Holandse Bolongaro and Hermbstedt's BKS - potash) to WoS (Dr. Rumney's Brown, Irish No. 22 and SPs - sodium carbonate, according to my nose) and then to J&H Wilson (Top Mill and SP No.1 - potash), was really perplexed by the difference. I assume F&T Old Paris contains potash, too (have a good pinch of Rumney's Brown and then take some Old Paris, on a clean palate each). For slaked lime taste, some Bernards, sure, but it's well hidden there beneath other ingredients; Cheeta, Super Chetak and White Horse come into my mind first, when I think of slaked lime. Gekachelter Virginie contains sodium carb. For snuffs containing ammonium carbonate, it's the main alkalizer in U.S. Smokeless scotches (along with smaller amount of sodium carbonate).

    Slaked lime is stronger base than sodium and potassium carbonate. Having no data about total and free-based nicotine content, I can only speculate that slaked lime containing Bernard products have more free-based (biovailable) nicotine, i. e. are on the stronger side nic delivery-wise. Due to its low solubility, slaked lime might also act as a binder/texture agent to some extent there (just a guess). But most probably the main function of this alkalizer in these molasses-containing sweet snuffs/schmalzlers is a preservative one (at least historically, when effective stuff like ethylparaben was unknown).
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