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Sir Walter Scott back in stock

Mr. Snuff and Toque

DeezDeez Member
Is Mr. Snuff no longer carrying Toque products?  I'm aware I can just order direct from Toque but noticed they all seem to be gone from Mr. Snuff.

Comments

  • ALLexALLex Member
    edited June 16 PM
    exactly!  no more Toque products at Mrsnuff  and I think it is pretty reasonable
  • DeezDeez Member
    It's certainly strange to see.
  • ALLexALLex Member
    edited June 18 PM
    yes at first it seems strange, but if you consider that Toque started as a snuff brand but now rebranded its website as a snuff supermarket (like what Mrsnuff is) offering same products and in super low prices starting that price war against Mrsnuff (kick under the belt move for a business) plus other marketing tricks, it is pretty obvious and reasonable that Mrsnuff dont want to include Toque brand into his products catalogue. It all boils down to business ethics and fair play in a market.
    Would you include your competitors product to your shop especially if the competitor doesnt play fair with you (price war etc.) ?

  • DeezDeez Member
    True.  I hadn't visited the Toque site in a while and he's got quite a store going on there these days.  Mr Snuff has to expect that competition will come and go but maybe that's why I haven't seen Roderick on this forum in a minute.   
  • Haggis2021Haggis2021 Member
    edited June 25 PM
    Toque undercutting MrSnuff on price isn't a price war it simply highlights how overpriced MrSnuff is. When Roderick is able to sell for 60-80% cheaper, and I assume still make a profit, then it's MrSnuff's business ethics you have to question. Toque has came into the market and shown that you don't need to pay almost £6.00 for a 25g tin of snuff. If Toque and MrSnuff had got together and decided on set prices to level the playing field they would be guilty of price fixing which is illegal in the UK but not sure if the Isle of Man is the same.
  • ALLexALLex Member
    edited June 25 PM
    @Haggis2021 I cant agree with you. Your points seem good from a customer perspective but you have to consider how big is one business vs the other which reflects how much more expenses have to pay and many other economic factors. Maybe Toque can now sell in that low prices and make profit but in the long term he will has to increase the prices to survive and keep making the profit.

    It seems that Mrsnuff is longer in the business and due to covid pandemic as all business got some damage so he had to increase the prices to survive. Toque as a smaller business got damage as well but in order do avoid increasing his prices he chose to rebrand his website from a single brand website to a snuff supermarket (like Mrsnuff was all that time) and selling in the lowest prices. So I guess thats why Mrsnuff dont want to include Toque products in its website.  

    Anyway I dont really care and I dont know that much, but I dont believe in a bad greedy Mrsnuff neither in a good savor Toque.  
    Each one offers something good that the other cant offer, so I am happy with both.

    P.S. I could explain it better but English isnt my first language. Excuse my poor English and sorry for grammar and syntax. 
  • DeezDeez Member
    @ALLex your English is better than many native English speakers I know!  No worries brother.
  • ALLexALLex Member
    @Deez thanks my friend!
  • chrischris Member
    edited June 26 PM
    I am not taking sides in this. I have ordered from both Mr Snuff and Toque in the past and I will order from both again in the future.

    However I must take issue with the "price war" comments. If you look at other snuff sellers in the UK such as the Edinburgh Pipe Shop, GQ, My Smoking Shop and Wilsons you will see that some of Toque's prices are the same, some are slightly lower and some are slightly higher. Overall they are all pretty much the same so there is no undercutting. Toque's prices are simply a reflection of the snuff market in the UK.

    On that basis I think it is unfair to criticise Toque's business ethics. If Roderick were to raise his prices then Toque would lose sales in the UK which - I presume - is still his main market and would damage his business.

  • ALLexALLex Member
    edited June 26 PM
    @chris Thanks for sharing your thoughts and I agree with you. I too enjoy ordering from both Mrsnuff and Toque and i am grateful we have those two places to buy snuff. 

    The "price war" might came out harsh but all I was talking was in the context of why Mrsnuff doesnt include Toque products on its catalogue and I was trying to give an explanation from the point of view of Mrsnuff. 
    Before Toque website rebranded into a snuff supermarket (like what Mrsnuff is all these years), Mrsnuff was selling Toque snuffs in higher prices than you could buy them from Toque too. It was just an other snuff brand in mrsnuffs catalogue. I guess Mrsnuff doesnt sell Toque products anymore because Toque rebranded into a competitor snuff supermarket website that sells almost the same catalogue as Mrsnuff but at lot lower prices, taking a lot of Mrsnuffs customers which cause Mrsnuff to lose customers aka money. Thats why I said it like "price war" and "under the belt move" and business ethics only from the point of view of Mrsnuff. These words and the truth are relative and not absolute. Relative to Mrsnuffs point of view Toque might be unethical stealing costumers from him, but relative to Toques point of view there might be another truth. I wasnt trying to criticize anyone. 

     Again I was trying only to guess why there arent any Toques in Mrsnuffs catalogue  so I had to think from  Mrsnuffs point of view and using simple logic only. 

    As a customer I like both vendors equally. 
  • I think that MrSnuff not stocking Toque, Silver Dollar or Artisan brands is a very poor business decision. They have become very popular and if there is a profit to be made then put your personal feeling aside.  As for price simply look at SnuffStore they are comparable with Toque and far cheaper than MrSnuff. Which is very strange as SnuffStore and MrSnuff are the same company, operating from the same warehouse and selling the same products. So do still think that Toque are undercutting MrSnuff to damage their sales or is MrSnuff putting a huge mark up on the products because of their high brand awareness.
  • ALLexALLex Member
    @Haggis2021
    I still think that Toque has “stolen” many of Mrsnuffs customers due to offering almost the same products in lower prices. It isnt a bad thing though.
    It is just the reason that maybe Mrsnuff doesnt sell Toques anymore.
    I didnt say that Toques purpose was to damage Mrsnuff but that was the consequence of doing the same thing like Mrsnuff with lower prices.

    It is common business logic that you dont include your competitors products to your catalogue. Before toque was a snuff brand and it was in mrsnuffs catalogue. Now that Toque rebranded it’s website into a snuff supermarket and is Mrsnuffs competitor, why would Mrsnuff want to sell Toque products?

    Now for international snuff supermarkets there are two “mainstream” options: Mrsnuff and Toque, and the second has taken a lot of Mrsnuffs customers due to the fact that sells the same products with lower prices. Its the best option for a customer.

    I want to make it clear: I am not against Toque, I have many Toque snuffs and I buy a lot from toques website many many years. I have bought more snuffs from Toque than from Mrsnuff.



    I will give u an example because you get it wrong thinking I am blaming toque or something.
    Lets say there is a Coffee beans brand (toque) and you own a cafeteria (mrsnuff) that sells that coffee brand blend between a lot other blends. There was always the option to buy cheaper from the brand but your cafeteria offers more brands and due to its brand awareness it is the easiest option for customers to buy from you. Now fast forward COVID strikes and damages businesses and the coffee bean brand decides that can open a cafeteria on the other side of the road of your cafeteria and do it’s job better selling all the other coffee brands you offered too and services with much lower prices. “Hey guys I can now make cappuccino and serve you here on our tables better than the other cafeteria with much lower prices”! And the word is spreading and as a result your cafeteria lost a lot of customers.
    If I was the boss of the first cafeteria I wouldnt want to include anymore that coffee bean brand in my catalogue because now that coffee bean brand is a cafeteria on the other side of the road - a competitor.

    Would u include your competitors products in your catalogue ?


    I think that’s why Mrsnuff doesnt sell Toques anymore.

    If u can better explain why Mrsnuff doesnt sell Toques anymore please feel free to tell us. But “very poor business decision” doesnt say me anything.

    A poor business decision would be to keep selling his competitors brands and in his common prices which are higher than his competitors.
  • ALLexALLex Member
    edited June 27 PM
    @Haggis2021 
    If you have no idea how was the scene before covid you cant get what i am saying. 
    For years before covid Toques website was only selling Toque products and Mr snuff was selling Toque products too. 
    Toque website was a snuff brand and Mrsnuff was always a snuff supermarket.
    Now the last years toques website rebranded into a snuff supermarket and its Mrsnuffs main competitor.

    I am not taking sides here neither i am biased. Each business makes moves for  there better. There are not bad and good guys, its business.

    And I am asking you again:  Would you sell your competitors products?? A competitor that sells in much lower prices than you.. And why? 
  • MrSnuffMrSnuff Administrator
    Hello all,

    I normally avoid getting involved in comparisons with competitor websites (and definitely getting into the gutter and making constant snipes on social media) but in this case I think I need to set a few things straight. While Toque does offer lower 'sticker' prices they are nowhere near the 60-80% cheaper claimed above. I did a price comparison and while there were a few glaring errors (like a minor tin of McChrystals listed at $63!) these were by far the minority. However if you go beyond the sticker this is what you find:

    Let's start small:

    1. You want a tin of Gawith Original shipped to USA. Toque is $2.15 and MrSnuff is $2.63. Much cheaper. However shipping on Toque is $15.23. On MrSnuff shipping is $9.99 tracked (flat rate $9.99 until you reach $30). Total price: Toque is $17.38. MrSnuff is $12.62. 

    2. How about a bit heavier: let's try 2 boxes (20 tins) of Gawith Original and 1 box of Hedges. Toque is exactly $100. MrSnuff get's you a 10% discount for buying a box, so cost so far is $117.27. Add in shipping and Toque is $122.26. Add in MrSnuff shipping which drops to $4.99 flat rate above $30 purchase with no upper limit, and Mrsnuff is $122.26. We are exactly the same. However MrSnuff also give a 3% cashback so we deduct $2.67. New total for Mrsnuff is: $119.59.

    We have to suck up most of the cost of shipping and handling, but we figure it is better for there to be no surprises at checkout when you might have spent ages picking and choosing various snuffs. Flat rate $4.99 above $30. Flat rate $9.99 below $30. That's it. Simple.

    In addition we know nobody likes to wait, so if you have to wait more than 10 business days we will refund your shipping. We can do this because shipping times are down to 4-8 days. 

    There are hidden costs which you guys don't see. For example Snuffhouse costs us £400 a month. We are about to release a new version of snuffhouse on a modern platform. That has taken months of development mainly because I wanted to migrate all users and all comments. This was very difficult because the current platform is so old. The cost to MrSnuff is in excess of $12,000. Why do it? Because I am a snuffer who grew up on snuffhouse. I love it. I love the community, the values, the people, the knowledge and the friendly banter. It is my small way of giving back to our community.

    MrSnuff gives back in other ways too. For example we sponsor a local kids football team. We use environmentally friendly packaging including paper tape. These things come at a price.

    All our staff are full time with benefits. Our lowest paid employee earns 10% over minimum liveable wage. Other companies only employ part-timers and they are on minimum wage - about £3 ($4) less per hour. 

    We also look after each others health here at MrSnuff. We have a small gym, a bar and we have frequent bbq's (thanks to the tips that you guys leave). We are having one today as a matter of fact.

    There's more, but I have taken enough of your time. Thank you.

    Dave 

    PS: please let us know if you find any price anomalies. We are far from perfect and mistakes are made. In fact we are always open to suggestions to make things better.

  • MrSnuffMrSnuff Administrator
    I just realised I forgot to address the other point about not stocking Toque and Silver Dollar.

    The main reason was because we became disenchanted with the product. We have a bonded warehouse here and when a pallet of Silver Dollar (in excess of 40,000 units) was shipped back to our competitor from a distributor in the USA due to issues with the FDA we realised it was already over a year old and would take many years for all retailers added together to sell. We did not want to buy any of this product because we try to stock the freshest possible snuff we can.

    It is an open secret that Silver Dollar is manufactured by Wilsons. We approached Wilsons and asked if we could private label the exact same snuffs. No problem. 

    Fairly soon you will see a new brand coming on MrSnuff called Gold Eagle. We won't have the full line up to start with, but if we are missing any SD flavours that you particularly like let us know and we will add it to the next order (after we get labels designed and printed of course). This will be identical since Wilsons produces both, but fresh as opposed to 2+ years old.

    After that experience we lost faith in Toque as well. It made sense for us from a business perspective to drop all the products. We know there is a loyal fan base and that is great. Anything new and innovative in this centuries old tradition is welcomed. Private label snuffs even though made by familiar manufacturers are often unique and special. Not to put another plug out there (apologies in advance), but this is what we are trying to achieve with the ever growing SNUV line up.

    That's it for now.

    Dave
  • I know that you've been more sparse with your posts on the forum in recent years Dave - But I for one appreciate these comments, and the invaluable support that you and the team at Mr Snuff have given to the snuff community globally over the years. 
        
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